« Nowadays Everybody's Crazy - Part 2 | Main | 5 Questions - Meet Kevin von Grabe »

19 November 2010

Comments

Here is a question: Isn't there a discernible taste difference between grain fed, corn fed and grass fed beef? Throw that into the cost equation.

Dino,

According to Wikipedia it sounds like there is not that much difference, a fair amount of variation in taste, and it depends a lot on the preferences of the people eating the beef. There is apparently no universal preference for grass over grain - or vice versa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding

"Bovine thinkologist," that's a great one.

Cows fed in feed lots have to have lots of bicarbonate of soda because they do not naturally digest grain as efficiently as grass. This was left out of the Stossel article. This may skew your analogy a little.

Cows will eat all that is available. Argentina became a major beef producer simply because of the vast areas of excellent grass that allowed them to raise herds to sell weight more quickly. Better grass equaled shorter lead times.

There is no such thing as the perfect analogy.

My wife points out that grass-fed have various health benefits over grain-fed because they aren't in cramped quarters, don't need the same heavy doses of anti-biotics, etc.. This suggests that some customers may place a value on health that they'd be willing to pay a premium on. Lean is, after all, about what the customer values.

Dino & Andy, you beat me to the punch. Dead on. As a native Iowan, pork and beef are big industries here and we consume a lot of both. I've got to disagree with Wikipedia on this. One of the key points of lean is facts vs. data. Wikipedia may say there is no universal preference, but I'd challenge us all to a taste test and judge for yourselves to see if you really have no preference (What a nice gemba experience - go to a restaraunt and see for yourselves!)I've had grass fed beef only once, in a restaurant in Wyoming in 1983 (yes, it was that bad that I recall the year and state), and that was all it took for me to make up my mind.

A little anecdote to reinforce my point... A few months ago I was having breakfast in a motel and the milk had started to turn. I brought it to the attendant's attention. He showed me the gallon it came from, which had a date indicating it should have still been good. He had the data, I had the facts. I went with the facts.

I don't know about the cow issue, but your lesson in lean manufacturing was great.

P.S I always thought that lean beef was better and better for you too.


As a Lean advocate and purchaser of grass fed beef, I take issue with the basic analogy. With grass fed beef, there is a difference in taste (you can essentially taste what they eat, so yes, corn/grain fed does taste "better" by American standards), the number of and quality of nutrients (grass fed cows have Omega 3 fatty acids whereas the others don't naturally), and the level of "foreign" substances (like antibiotics or other things that have to be fed to cattle that aren't eating a natural diet). What Stossel and you seem to be leaving out of the equation is that cows aren't cars. Beef is a natural product; like a fine wine, time has an effect on certain quality aspects. I will continue to pay for real beef from a cow that lived like a cow rather than a factory-produced beef product because it's better for my health, quality of life and longevity. Sure, corn fed beef is cheaper and tastes a little better, but if it's taking years off my life, I'll make a small sacrifice and eat the as-nature-intended version.

As far as the environmental argument goes, all ruminants (cows included) are bad for the environment (methane is far worse than C02), so if your goal is to fix the environment, stop eating beef. I could also argue that making cows grow more quickly drives down prices, increases demand and drives up the need for more cows, so systemically, over time, quick and cheap cows results in more cows and a worse environment (not to mention an obesity and public health epidemic - oh wait, we already have that).

Great article. Rush Limbaugh has made this argument in the past regarding the environmental impact of eating organic, etc.

Interesting to me is the fact that beef (and, in some sense, cars) is overproduced for consumers who overpurchase and then waste.

What I mean by that is that the scenario of minimizing waste and cost and inefficiencies is all well and good until you get to the American consumer (40% of whom are obese) who buys more than they should which puts huge pressure on the industry to push costs down rather than quality up.

Sometimes I laugh at the concept of a perfectly well run company serving a well designed and properly manufactured good to a customer who is far less than optimal or rational.

Nice example to ponder and I love a good steak. I agree with Eric on the notion that beef is overproduced for consumers who overpurchase and waste. And the waste is not only scrap in the trash waste but needless consumption waste. The USDA portion size for a serving of beef is 3 ounces. Try buying a 3 ounce steak in either the store or restaurant. I find that 6 ounce is the lowest on the menu, with normal 12-14 ounce offer and even the occasional 25 ounce. The fact is that portion sizes are out of control in America. Either we don't know what a good portion size is or we don't care.

Beyond this portion control problem which skews demand, any discussion on the best process should look at TOTAL cost. This is hard to do since many costs are hidden like impact to our environment.

This conversation has degraded into telling the customer what they want is not good for them. And telling the customer what they should want.

***********************************************************

Amen Jim ..... Bill W

I would suggest that you are leaving out a large amount of the supply chain when considering grain fed beef. When you look at grain fed beef, I would suggest looking

Grain fed beef, as the name implies, is largely fed by corn. In the case of the United States, that corn starts by being planted in some mid-western corn belt-state in the April/May timeframe. The corn is then harvested sometime in September-November. The inputs, such as seed, fertilizer, and chemicals, to this industrial cropping process are expensive and the associated capital is tied up the ground during this period (muda). It requires approximately 50 bushels of corn to finish grain fed beef (to USDA choice). That 50 bushels of corn at today's corn production rates means 1/4 to 1/3 of an acre of land and its associated capital expense (muda) is tied up to produce the corn needed per head of beef finished on corn.

Another consideration in the corn production value chain: it has reasonable size subsidies from the US government. This means your tax dollars are eventually going to support the cheap corn that then feeds the cattle contributing to grain fed costing less than grass fed.

The harvested grain is then stored (muda!) in grain elevators until it is needed by the feed lots. After storage, which could be for a while, the grain is shipped (typically via rail) to feed lots (more muda!) which are typically in drier climates than the feed; so imagine shipping from Iowa / Illinois to Colorado.

Reaching one step further back in the supply chain, the major fertilizer and chemical inputs into the grain production process are derived from natural gas or crude oil deratives. As such, imagine that the supply chain starts in the Gulf of Mexico (in the case of natural gas, the major input into nitrogen fertilizer, the main fertilizer to make corn grow) or Saudi Arabia (in the case of the crude oil that will be made into various herbicides, insecticides, or fungicides). (Muda, muda, muda.) The cost of fertilizer and chemicals fluxuates with with the cost of natural gas and oil; as these go up due to demand in other sectors, expect the inputs costs and cost of corn and the cost of beef to go up.

On top of all of this, a typical t-bone steak from grain fed beef has approximately four times the saturated fat in it as compared to the equivalent steak from grass fed beef. (!!!!).

Now ask yourself, which process is leaner...corn fed or grain fed beef. When you look at the complete supply chain the answer is not so obvious.

You've let ideology get in the way of good business sense this time. As someone above points out, you've effectively ignored the fact that the two products have very different supply chains. One goes like this: Sun, grass, cow. The other is more: Oil company, refinery, chemical plant, distributor (or two or three), corn, cow. And that's just for the food...doesn't count the supply chain for the tractor to put the chemicals in the ground.

Somebody else mentioned the discussion 'devolves" into telling people what they should like and buy. But that's exactly where the ideologues START the discussion. The fact that some farmers grow and sell grass-fed cows means that I have...choice! Maybe I just like grass-fed cow, right? It's funny how the ideologues use the choice argument to defend Hummers (which, ugly as they are, I wouldn't buy if the Sierra Club endorsed them) but ignore it when they want to dis good food. In other words, I buy local food and grass-fed beef because, yes, it tastes better. And I often pay more to get the added value. Ain't that the American way?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Subscribe

  • Get EvolvingExcellence via email:

    | Kindle | Mobile

    Over 10,000 daily readers.

Search the Blog

Twitter Updates

  •  

Authors

  • Kevin Meyer
    Kevin is president of a medical device company and consults and speaks on a variety of lean enterprise topics.
    - More about Kevin
     
    Bill Waddell
    Bill is a recognized lean consultant, speaker, and author with deep supply chain experience.
    - More about Bill

Sponsors

The Book

  • Evolving Excellence
    Thoughts on Lean Enterprise Leadership

    by Kevin Meyer and Bill Waddell

    A 458-page edited and categorized compilation of our favorite posts! All for only $29.95.

    More information

    Annual compilations of the blog are available for the Kindle:
    2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009